Date: 04/03/95 09:33:25 AMTo: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: pacifica-l is open for business!>>Bruce,>>>I wonder how we can attract subscribers?>>Thanks for taking the initiative to get the list going.  As for attracting>subscribers, the first thing that comes to mind is an announcement in>ba.internet.  I already have sent off an announcement to the newsgroupba.announce.  I'll lurk a little bit on ba.internet to see if an announcment there would be "on topic".P.S. you should subscribe too, email to:"listserv_AT_netcom.com"and in the body of the message write:"subscribe pacifica-l Dave Yuhas"> I also think there's a way to get a new list mentioned in on>of the news.* groups, but I wouldn't know how to go about it.I'll lurk there too, to see what I can find out.  The "news.*" groups are global, and our audience will be very much local.>>------------------------------------------------------------->Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPA>dave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)>------------------------------------------------------------->>Date: 04/03/95 02:05:54 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Majordomo results>X-POP3-Rcpt: dave_AT_mail>Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:24:42 -0700>To: dave_AT_crl.com>From: listserv_AT_netcom.com>Subject: Majordomo results>Reply-To: listserv_AT_netcom.com>>-->>>>>> subscribe pacifica-l Dave Yuhas>**** subscribe: LISTSERV-style request failed>This looks like a BITNET LISTSERV style 'subscribe' request, because>the part after the list name doesn't look like an email address; it looks>like a person's name.  Majordomo is not LISTSERV.  In a Majordomo 'subscribe'>request, the part after the list name is optional, but if it's there, it>should be an email address, NOT a person's real name.>>>>> >**** Help for listserv_AT_NETCOM.COM:>>This is Brent Chapman's "Majordomo" mailing list manager, version 1.62.>>It understands the following commands:>>    subscribe  [
]>	Subscribe yourself (or 
 if specified) to the named .>>    unsubscribe  [
]>	Unsubscribe yourself (or 
 if specified) from the named .>>    which [
]>	Find out which lists you (or 
 if specified) are on.>>    who >	Find out who is on the named .>>    info >	Retrieve the general introductory information for the named .>>    lists>	Show the lists served by this Majordomo server.>>    help>	Retrieve this message.>>    end>	Stop processing commands (useful if your mailer adds a signature).>>Commands should be sent in the body of an email message to>"listserv_AT_NETCOM.COM".>>Commands in the "Subject:" line NOT processed.>>If you have any questions or problems, please contact>"listserv-owner_AT_NETCOM.COM".>>>Date: 04/03/95 02:32:56 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: First message to pacifica-lWell Dave, we have a mailing list, but I have not much to say .I noticed from the error message that the proper sign up command is:subscribe pacifica-l EMailAddress-not-subscribe pacifica-l FirstName LastNameSo the notice I submitted to ba.announce is wrong,oops, first bug!IMO, our next goal is to get some Pacifica "activists" to start using this list to post "calls to action" for upcoming City Council meetings, etc.. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/03/95 05:34:14 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: First message to pacifica-lBruce,>IMO, our next goal is to get some Pacifica "activists" to start using this >list to post "calls to action" for upcoming City Council meetings, etc..I don't know anyone on the City Council.  If you do, perhaps you might askher to announce the existence of this list at a meeting...Does the City have Internet access?I'll ask my wife, an officer of the Pacifica branch of American Associationof University Women to include a notice in the group's next newsletter.I can put a batch of flyers at the two branches of the library.  I couldhand out the flyers to the attendees at the next council meeting.There's a lot of things we could do to get the word out.-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/04/95 08:31:50 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: "Fitness club" remodel in the old Safeway/Pedro point.Have you noticed that they are finally working on the remodel of the Safeway into a "fitness club"?  I'll be the first to join!  It seems to me that the Linda Mar valley has enough people to support a health club, as the closest alternative is in Daly City. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/04/95 11:46:21 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: "Fitness club" remodel in the old Safeway/Pedro point.>Have you noticed that they are finally working on the remodel of the Safeway >into a "fitness club"?  I'll be the first to join!  It seems to me that the >Linda Mar valley has enough people to support a health club, as the closest >alternative is in Daly City.Something tells me the club's business plan didn't include Highway 1deadending where it does...-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/04/95 11:46:25 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Replying to pacifica-lBruce,When replying to your message about the health club, I noticed that the reply to address is your email address rather than the list's address.  Is this correct?Dave YuhasPacifica, CAdave_AT_crl.comDate: 04/04/95 11:46:25 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Replying to pacifica-lBruce,When replying to your message about the health club, I noticed that the reply to address is your email address rather than the list's address.  Is this correct?Dave YuhasPacifica, CAdave_AT_crl.comDate: 04/04/95 01:59:34 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: "Fitness club" remodel in the old Safeway/Pedro point.>>>Have you noticed that they are finally working on the remodel of the Safew>>into a "fitness club"?  I'll be the first to join!  It seems to me that th>>Linda Mar valley has enough people to support a health club, as the closes>>alternative is in Daly City.>>Something tells me the club's business plan didn't include Highway 1>deadending where it does...The Highway 1 closure is temporary!  Isn't there a fitness center in Half Moon Bay?  I'm sure some of the HMB'ers would use a Pacifica fitness center, but the bulk of the customers will have to come from Pacifica (especially Linda Mar). '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/04/95 01:59:38 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Welcome, to pacifica-lTo: dwalt_AT_mercury.sfsu.edu (Walter Dmytrenko)I noticed that you just subscribed to pacifica-l, which you may not realize to be only three days old.  I guess that makes you a charter member .  The list has had no time to develope yet.  My hopes are that it can become some sort of civic "grassroots" roundtable in Pacifica.I'm curious what you think about the potentials of a Pacifica list? '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/04/95 01:59:43 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Replying to pacifica-lBruce>I think this is a "feature" of the majordomo mail list program which Netcom >uses.  On "big lists" I think that there are problems with excessive volume, >and the extra effort to address a reply to the list, as opposed to the >"automatic" reply to the who list, which helps control the excess chaff.I don't understand the above.  Won't this cause a bunch of "subscribe" and"unsubscribe" messages to show up in subscribers' mailboxes.  This kind ofbehavior regularly causes flame wars on a lot of lists that I read.Just wonderinng...-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/04/95 02:53:22 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Welcome new pacifica-l list subscriber>viviana_AT_tamri.com has been added to pacifica-l. Welcome, Vivian A. is the fourth subscriber to this three day old mailing list on Pacifica.  I have no idea where this list is going.I'm curious what you think a mailing list about Pacifica can achieve.One thing for sure is that we need more subscribers. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/04/95 04:30:24 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Replying to pacifica-lBruce,Thanks for the clarification.On another vein, how about starting an "Introductions" thread so we can allget to know one another?-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/05/95 10:28:15 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Replying to pacifica-lBruce,>One of the problems with mailing lists is that they don't have "threads".  That may be true of Majordomo, but it is not true of listserv.  Here's anexample of a listserv that I read, BirdChat, in digest form:     There are 58 messages totalling 1709 lines in this issue.      Topics of the day:        4. Prothonotary Warbler Houses (6)       5. Bird Band Reporting Info Requested (3)      10. References?: Trade in Wild Birds (2)      11. Early Western Kingbirds? (6)Each topic is a "thread."  The number in parentheses shows how manyresponses there are in the specif topic.  Listserv won't sort and group themessages into thread order like a newsreader can.>At anytime, anyone can inquire who is subscribed to the pacifica-l by >sending the EMail message to:>>listserv_AT_netcom.com>>The subject line is ingnored.>In the body of the message on three lines type:>>help>who pacifica-l>endThanks for that information.  There are undoubtedly other commands thatMajordomo recognizes.  Would you please post them to the list.-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/05/95 10:28:17 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: helpwho pacifica-lendDate: 04/05/95 12:50:39 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: San Mateo board of Sups. 3-2 against the Tunnel!I read in the Trib this AM that the San Mateo board of Supervisors voted against investigating a tunnel alternate to the bypass.  Mike Nevin voted against.  I am disappointed.  This pacifica-l could be a method to let interested people know that votes like this are "going to happen", as opposed to "have happened". '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/05/95 01:23:04 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: San Mateo board of Sups. 3-2 against the Tunnel!>I read in the Trib this AM that the San Mateo board of Supervisors voted >against investigating a tunnel alternate to the bypass.  Mike Nevin voted >against.  I am disappointed.  I really don't understand the reluctance to investigate a tunnel.  It seemslike a win/win solution.  To obvious for our elected leaders...?-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/05/95 04:31:36 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom AlamedaSubject: Re: San Mateo board of Sups. 3-2 against the Tunnel!>>I read in the Trib this AM that the San Mateo board of Supervisors voted >>against investigating a tunnel alternate to the bypass.  Mike Nevin voted>>against.  I am disappointed.  >>I really don't understand the reluctance to investigate a tunnel.  It seem>like a win/win solution.  To obvious for our elected leaders...?I would like to hear their rational.  I guess they see some "money in hand" as the bypass is already funded.  The Trib article said that with the proper political pressure that the bypass funding could be transfered to the tunnel, but that the political pressure still needed to materialize.That is part of my hope for a pacifica-l, as it could serve as a vehicle to expedite a "call to action" among concerned Pacifica residents.Also, I wish I knew that this vote was going to occur.  A pacifica-l would be useful to announce in advance such votes. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/06/95 07:17:33 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Strikers at Linda Mar Safeway.Driving by the Linda Mar Blvd. Safeway at 6:15 this morning, I saw picket lines at the parking lot entrances, and at the doors to the Safeway Store. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/07/95 11:24:12 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: "Fitness club" remodel in the old Safeway/Pedro point.>Have you noticed that they are finally working on the remodel of the Safeway >into a "fitness club"?  I'll be the first to join!  It seems to me that the >Linda Mar valley has enough people to support a health club, as the closest >alternative is in Daly City.There's an article in this week's Trib about the club.  The owner says he'llgive a special $25/mo rate to generate local business (3 mo minimum).  Ibelieve the yearly rate is $279.I seriously doubt if there's enough business in Linda Mar valley alone tokeep this place afloat.  Anyone care to start a pool on when the club folds?-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/09/95 01:26:56 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: New subscriber pacifica-l #5Status: R>>-->>mauricel_AT_SIRIUS.COM (Maurice Landstrass) has been added to pacifica-l.>No action is required on your part.>Welcome to the fifth subscriber to the pacifica-l one week old mailing list!I'm not sure where this mailing list is going, but I am sure that there are a lot of people in Pacifica, who care about Pacifica.  So in the longer term, I think there is a need for a Pacifica mailing list.  More subscribers are needed for this list to reach it's "critical mass" to be really useful.  Finding more subscribers is a matter of publicity and time. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/12/95 04:38:46 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Think twice about parking at BARTHi,A word of warning about parking at the BART station in Daly City.  Our carwas recently stolen from the garage on a Saturday.  A few years ago, thesame car was stolen from the Park and Ride lot.  Our insurance agent told usauto theft at the station is a well-known problem.When the car was recovered, in Vallejo, we found lots of stuff beloning towhomever had it.  Among the thief's stuff in the car was The Club, theanti-theft device.  -------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/13/95 09:46:22 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Think twice about parking at BARTDave Yuhas wrote:>> "A word of warning about parking at the BART station in Daly City.  Our ca> "was recently stolen from the garage on a Saturday.  Is it just my bias showing through, or is it real that it appears that the crime rate seems to double when you cross from Pacifica to Daly City (and double again) when you enter San Francisco.Just..., another reason I love Pacifica. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/13/95 12:43:46 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Think twice about parking at BARTBruce,The crime rate in Pacifica, while low compared to the rest of the Bay Area,is still unacceptably high.  My home was burglarized in '90.  It's mind boggling to me that everyone I know wouldn't dare leave their homewithout locking all the doors and windows first.  Is this anyway to live?>Dave Yuhas wrote:>>> "A word of warning about parking at the BART station in Daly City.  Our ca>> "was recently stolen from the garage on a Saturday.  >>Is it just my bias showing through, or is it real that it appears that the >crime rate seems to double when you cross from Pacifica to Daly City (and >double again) when you enter San Francisco.>>Just..., another reason I love Pacifica.>> '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman> . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com>. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/>>-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/14/95 10:25:56 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Is Pacifica a Shoppers' Paradise?Hi,There was an interesting letter in this week's Trib.  Seems Mr. Ron Rehn,owner of the Foodtown market, needed some emergency repairs.  Being aresponsible, civic-minded individual he tried to obtain the needed servicefrom a local business.  Needless to say he was disappointed.  He ended upgetting the service from an "over the hill" business.In the same issue was the Chamber's weekly propaganda piece in whichPalmetto avenue was described as a "shoppers' paradise."I've maintained for years to anyone who would listen, that Pacificamerchants are stupid.  There is only one thing a Pacifica business can offerthat can't be found somewhere else.  That one thing is excellent anduncompromising  service.  Pacifica business people can't offer better pricesor availability due to their small size.  They can't offer better selection.But have you noticed a concerted effort by the Pacifica business communityto offer great service?If you have, please let me know.-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/14/95 01:29:16 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Whether or not to cross the picket line?I suspect that I am not alone, amoung Pacificaites, in that I am struggling with the moral decision whether or not to cross the Safeway picket lines.On one hand, I havn't crossed the line because I will need to look these strikers "in the eye", many times in the future.  Some of them are my friends.On the other hand, I have no problem shopping at a "non-union" store [IE Costco] whenever I feel like it.  Fundamentally, it is the market pressure from me shopping for price that has forced Safeway to try to cut their health insurance costs.My two decisions above are fundamentally opposed.And... Should I be asked to pay for someone else to have a better health insurance package that the one that I get?  And... I do care about the long term cost of the things I buy at Safeway.  And... If I worked at Safeway, I would certainly be walking with a picket sign.   '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/14/95 01:29:49 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Whether or not to cross the picket line?Bruce,I found it hard to believe that teenage "courtesy clerks" receive fullhealth benefits.  I don't.  I also find it hard to believe that Safeway, whois earning record profits, wants to cut out health care for workers' dependents.And I can't stand strikers, any strikers, making a business' customers feelguilty about patronizing a struck business.  If the company is so evil, theywere evil before the strike, were they not?  So can't the strikers' positionbe summed up thusly: Shop at this evil company as long as it gives me what Iwant?===========================================================================>I suspect that I am not alone, amoung Pacificaites, in that I am struggling >with the moral decision whether or not to cross the Safeway picket lines.>>On one hand, I havn't crossed the line because I will need to look these >strikers "in the eye", many times in the future.  Some of them are my >friends.>>On the other hand, I have no problem shopping at a "non-union" store [IE >Costco] whenever I feel like it.  Fundamentally, it is the market pressure >from me shopping for price that has forced Safeway to try to cut their >health insurance costs.>>My two decisions above are fundamentally opposed.>>And... Should I be asked to pay for someone else to have a better health >insurance package that the one that I get?  And... I do care about the long >term cost of the things I buy at Safeway.  And... If I worked at Safeway, I >would certainly be walking with a picket sign.  >>> '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman> . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com>. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/>>-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/14/95 01:29:53 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Take an Upper Middle Class Girl to WorkHi,I was eating lunch in downtown SF today and noticed a lot of young girls inthe crowd.  I wondered if I would see as many young girls in the break roomat a Tyson chicken processing factory in Arkansas.  How many of these women,the workforce in these factories is primarily female, are itching to sharetheir work lives with the daughters?I don't get the idea behind the "take a girl to work" movement.  I'd rathershield them from the harsh and unpleasant realities of the workplace for aslong as possible.  There's always time for drudgery.Is anybody besides Bruce out there???-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/14/95 01:29:56 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Question about the ListBruce,When I reply to an original post from you, or anyone, to the list, is myreply sent to the other subscribers?  It doesn't seem like it.  When I postan original message, I get that message in my mailbox.  When I post a reply,sent to deadfish_AT_netcom.com, I don't get that reply in my mailbox.  (Thereplies should go to pacifica-l_AT_netcom.com, imho.)If replies aren't being sent to the subscribers, then the list's majorpurpose will be to post announcements.  -------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/14/95 01:30:00 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Whether or not to cross the picket line?Test.  Please ignore.>I suspect that I am not alone, amoung Pacificaites, in that I am struggling >with the moral decision whether or not to cross the Safeway picket lines.>>On one hand, I havn't crossed the line because I will need to look these >strikers "in the eye", many times in the future.  Some of them are my >friends.>>On the other hand, I have no problem shopping at a "non-union" store [IE >Costco] whenever I feel like it.  Fundamentally, it is the market pressure >from me shopping for price that has forced Safeway to try to cut their >health insurance costs.>>My two decisions above are fundamentally opposed.>>And... Should I be asked to pay for someone else to have a better health >insurance package that the one that I get?  And... I do care about the long >term cost of the things I buy at Safeway.  And... If I worked at Safeway, I >would certainly be walking with a picket sign.  >>> '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman> . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com>. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/>>-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/14/95 05:02:30 PMFrom: Walter Dmytrenko (dwalt_AT_mercury.sfsu.edu)Via: Netcom SFSubject: pacific state of mind              (((((               (((((((((( ((          (((((((((((((()))         ((((((((((((((((((         ==================         | ( O ) / ( O ) ||           \======/  ======/                {    L_    }}                    \  :-O-: }}    re thinking twice when crossing over             \\|   |//     the hill for anything -               \\|//       having lived and worked on the coastfor almost 15 years now, you do notice the dynamic that half ofthe population is/are whales. for the landlubbers, we can look orthink once as our competition is either in the water or in dalycity, and while the denizens of daly city are great people, themfish in the ocean make life worth living in this coastalcommunity. some years ago, paul azevedo when still a full staffmember of the tribune, before it was sold to over-the-hillinterests, remarked on the fact that pacifica is a community withone of the longest ocean beach fronts in the usa. pacifica merchants? they're ok. they might not be able to giveyou the fantastic bargains on tupperware that you can get incolma, sf or palo alto, but then how many of the customersactually work in pacifica anyway. their's is a tuff life withhalf of the customers being those cheap skate whales.safeway, lucky's? the owners generally live over the hill andhave that mentality. what they propose is class warfare when it'ssuggested that you should cross the picket lines. everyone hasthe right to decent health care, and if employees organise to getit, then the rest of us should be organising to get it. americandoctors make 5x's the average salary, compared to canadian doc'swho get something like 4.?x's, japanese 3.x's?  let's not eventhink about how much money the insurance companies and thelobby-ists take off the top for looking after us all so well.yes, 7-11 should be organised, as should be foodtown andcentral market, but it is a long on-going struggle. incidentally, i saw bill drake shopping in foodtown at eurekasquare. his initial comment to me, albeit jocular, was that hefelt threatened by some of "bruiser types" - his words - who werepicketing at safeway. but bill is a genteel sort of guy living offthe income he pocketed by selling the tribune to texas wheelerdealers, and might be intimidated by some of those female clerkswho only want to live half as well as he lives. he's a nice guy,a pillar of the community, occasionally mispeaks, but . . . ? healso had to oversee many changes at the tribune that includedelimination of the union there some years ago.me? well, i finally paid my dues with the pedro point surf club,and feel more comfortable with the sharks now.oh! howabout that tci! pouring pornography into every cabled homein pacifica. you can see them fucking, sucking, diddling, tittingeverything but a man's dick. yes, it's better to play with the sharks, at least they're nottwo faced.best to all my pacifica neighbors from yours truly in thenorthern part of town . . . . walterlongest oceanDate: 04/15/95 02:26:55 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Welcome to Pacifica-l.Welcome Merideth Tanner  to the Pacifica List. (the sixth subscriber).This list is still brand new, and as such, it has not really had a chance to develop a "personality".I am curious how you (and others) think the pacifica-l can be useful? '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/15/95 02:26:59 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Welcome to Pacifica-l.Hello, Meredith.  What's brings you to our neck of the woods?>Welcome Merideth Tanner  to the Pacifica List. (the sixth >subscriber).>>This list is still brand new, and as such, it has not really had a chance to >develop a "personality".>>I am curious how you (and others) think the pacifica-l can be useful?>>>>>> '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman> . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com>. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/>>-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 04/15/95 02:27:13 PMFrom: Meredith Tanner (merde_AT_crl.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: what i think the list is good for?the only thing i can think of is that it might be agood place to share information about resources andevents in pacifica, first of all -- for instance, i'mlooking for a therapist who will work on a slidingscale, and i'd prefer to give what money i have toa pacifica business.  also, up until very recently,my fiancee and i had been much too busy to go outmuch, and now we're wondering what there is to doin pacifica in the evenings.  we've been to Tam'sa few times and eyed the Surf Lounge with suspicion,but what else is there?  is there anywhere that haslive music regularly?  (i'm particularly interestedin knowing that because i'm a professional musicianand i'm always looking for work.)  you know, that kind of thing.mDate: 04/15/95 02:42:42 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: pacific state of mind>best to all my pacifica neighbors from yours truly in the>northern part of town . . . . walter>longest oceanOh...walter, you are such a poet.  '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/15/95 04:32:20 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: what i think the list is good for?Merideth wrote:>the only thing i can think of is that it might be a>good place to share information about resources and>events in pacifica, Yes, I agree.  Add to that, Pacifica politics.  I think that a mailing list could actually be a force in Pacifica politics.  For instance, people could be better informed about some of the more esoteric "planning commision" agenda items.  Or... when a big turn out is needed at a City Council meeting, with only short notice, a Pacifica mailing list could really make a difference with a call to action.>is there anywhere that has live music regularly?  Except for the fact that too many people smoke cigarette, Cheers in Linda Mar has fun live music often. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/17/95 03:52:34 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Welcome five new pacifica-l subscribers.Welcome... five new pacifica-l subscribers.The total number of subscribers is now 12. This is decent growth in two weeks since the formation of the list, IMO.  As you might expect, with a list so new; the Pacifica-l has not yet had a chance to develop a direction or "personality".  I wonder what this list will be like one year in the future?I'm not sure what we can tell from this growth rate, but perhaps it tells us that there are a lot of "online" people in Pacifica, and/or that there are a lot of people in Pacifica who care about Pacifica.People who joined over the weekend:Kevin Barnhill <70673.2010_AT_compuserve.com>jmorrall_AT_aol.com jerikse_AT_news.luc.edu amirza_AT_bronze.ucs.indiana.edu cbelway_AT_chat.carleton.ca (As I asked the people who joined before you...) What you think a Pacifica Mailing List can be used for? '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   deadfish_AT_netcom.com. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   '   NEW! => URL http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/17/95 03:52:39 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: San Pedro Valley ParkOne of Pacifica's little known gems is San Pedro Valley Park.  My wife and Iwalked the main trail yesterday morning.  The park is so green you'll thinkyou've died and gone to heaven (Ireland).  While there we were treated tothe sight of a bobcat springing out from the bushes at a covey of quail (itmissed), a pair of mating flickers, and a closeup look at a flock of feedingGolden Crowned Sparrows (we're birders).On my previous visit, a herd of feeding deer wandered onto the trail ;completely oblivious the the people on the trail.If you haven't been to the park, you owe yourself a visit.  There's a nicelittle natural history museum near the entrance.If you want to save the $3 entry fee, park outside the park.  It's a shortwalk to the entrance.  On the other hand, I'm sure they could use the money.Dave Yuhas                         Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com                        415 495 1916 / 415 777 9798 (fax)Date: 04/17/95 03:52:43 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Big Band Jazz at Nick'sIf you like big band jazz, and who doesn't, the Cal State Northridge JazzBand will be performing at Nick's this Wednesday night at 7:30 and 9:00.  Isaw them the last time they were here.  They really cooked.See you there.Dave Yuhas                         Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com                        415 495 1916 / 415 777 9798 (fax)Date: 04/18/95 06:44:25 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: San Pedro Valley ParkDave Yuhas wrote:>>>One of Pacifica's little known gems is San Pedro Valley Park.  I agree.  Also, the next time it rains, walk up to the waterfall.  Follow the trail about one mile south from the main parking lot.  For a few days after a rain you are treated to a ribbon waterfall with perhaps 100 vertical feet of fall.  [A couple photo's of it are in my Web page.]  Maybe not quite as beautiful as Hawaii, but still a very beautiful sight.>If you want to save the $3 entry fee, park outside the park.  And, more often than not, the ranger collecting money is not on duty.One disappointment (for me at least) is that dogs, even on leash, are not allowed. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/20/95 01:48:17 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: new subscribersIn the last four days, we have had six new subscribers to the Pacifca-l mailing list, bring the total to (I think) eighteen, in this now three week old list.Welcome to:curtis_AT_xaostools.comKLHaugen_AT_eworld.comginette_AT_almaden.ibm.commatuse_AT_netcom.comDavid.Macy_AT_efi.comlsteere_AT_us.oracle.comYou all are welcome to simply lurk silently, or if you like, (I for one) am curious about what your thoughts are for the possiblities and potentials of a Pacifica-l mailing list.  Comments anyone? '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/20/95 02:33:39 PMFrom: David Macy (David.Macy_AT_efi.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: new subscribers        Reply to:   RE>new subscribersBruce, I think you have a great idea about using this forum to further the causeand publicity for the tunnel alternative, but I also think there are otherinteresting potentials including simply elevating the level of cultural,artistic, and intellectual discussion and activity in Pacifica. Anyway, I'm surewe'll come up with some good ideas as time goes by. What are your thoughts?--------------------------------------Date: 4/20/95 1:31 PMTo: David MacyFrom: Bruce HallmanIn the last four days, we have had six new subscribers to the Pacifca-l mailing list, bring the total to (I think) eighteen, in this now three week old list.Welcome to:curtis_AT_xaostools.comKLHaugen_AT_eworld.comginette_AT_almaden.ibm.commatuse_AT_netcom.comDavid.Macy_AT_efi.comlsteere_AT_us.oracle.comYou all are welcome to simply lurk silently, or if you like, (I for one) am curious about what your thoughts are for the possiblities and potentials of a Pacifica-l mailing list.  Comments anyone? '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/20/95 04:53:15 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: What you can do to oppose the Devil's slide bypass.What can I do to help oppose the Bypass?******************Write your representatives.Please let our politicians know your feelings about the Devils Slide repair:  Our U.S. Representatives need to know that we want them implement  legislation to re-obligate Bypass funds to the tunnel alternative.  Anna Eshoo 			Tom Lantos U.S. Congress, 14th District 	U.S. Congress, 12th District 698 Emerson Street 		400 El Camino Real, Room 820 Palo Alto, CA 94301 		San Mateo, CA 94402 Telephone (415) 323-2984 	Telephone (415) 342-0300 FAX (202)225-8890 		FAX (202)255-7900 EMail annagram_AT_hr.house.gov 	EMail talk2tom_AT_hr.house.gov Our state senator Quentin Kopp needs to know that we want him to support an investigation of the tunnel alternative to the bypass road:  Quentin Kopp California State Senator 363 El Camino Real, Suite 205 South San Francisco, CA 94080 Telephone (415) 952-5666 Fax (415) 589-5953  Pacifica City Council member Ellen Castelli, considered a swing vote,  needs to know that we want her to vote to request investigation of the tunnel alternative:  Ellen Castelli Pacifica City Council 170 Santa Maria Ave. Pacifica, CA 94044 ***************Visit the Earth Day exhibit sponsored by P.T.A. -1 between 10 and 6 this coming Saturday, 4/22/95.***************Attend the City Council meeting this coming Monday at 6PM, to let the Council how we want them to vote on their agenda item of whether or not to request a copy of the Caltrans documentation of the earlier study of a tunnel (which Caltrans is currently withholding.)***************How can I keep better informed?Contact Pacifica's Tunnel Alternative for Hwy1 (P.T.A.-1) at 522-2322  ***************Encourage others to join the Pacifica-l EMail mailing list by sending  EMail to:listserv_AT_netcom.com[The subject line is ignored.]In the body of the message write:subscribe pacifica-l YourEMailAddress '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/20/95 04:53:27 PMFrom: LSTEERE.US.ORACLE.COM (LSTEERE_AT_us.oracle.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: What you can do to oppose the Devil's slide bypass.--Boundary-11482778-0-0Thanks, Bruce! Great complilation of things.--Date: 04/21/95 11:30:27 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: On-line Pacifica, the future.                                                      April 21, 1995Open letter to all Pacificans;I am planning on attending the Monday City Council session and I was thinking of asking the Council what their vision and/or plans are for the on-line future of the City of Pacifica.   This leads me to ask myself what is my vision of the future of On-line Pacifica.  [And, to ask YOU what your vision of the future may be.]1) Now.  Mailing List.  The council members (and all concerned Pacificans) should join the pacifica-l roundtable mailing list of discussions.      To subscribe to the "On-line Pacifica" roundtable mailing list,      send an EMail message to:            listserv_AT_netcom.com      In the body of the message write:         subscribe pacifica-l YourEMailAddress2) Now.  World Wide Web.  People in Pacifica who are interested in developing a family of hypertext Pacifica Web pages, should coordinate their efforts.  At present, I believe that there are three Pacifica Web pages of sorts, (my own), the "abag" government page, and the "netmedia" restaurant page.  The Montara Mountain Web page is also closely related to the interests of Pacifica.  There is room for many more, perhaps even an official governmental "Pacifica" page.Existing URL's of Pacifica related Web pages...   http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/pacifica.html   http://www.abag.ca.gov/abag/local_gov/city/Pacifica.html   http://netmedia.com/ims/rest/Cities/Pacifica.html   http://www.hax.com/Montara/MontaraMountain.html3) Future.  All the council members should have and use EMail addresses, either through a commercial service such as America On-line, or from any of perhaps a hundred other Internet Service Providers with a Bay Area presence.  Some of the council members may need to become "computer literate" to do this.  The Council should use EMail as another method to stay in touch with their constituency.4) Future.  Pacifica should register the Internet domain name "pacifica.gov" so that it is reserved for future use, and to prevent it from being reserved by someone else.  Many Internet Service Providers can provide the service of registering a domain name.5) Future.  In perhaps a year, Pacifica should establish a Usenet newsgroup, either in the ba.* hierarchy, or in it's own base level hierarchy, similar to the scruz.* hierarchy in use by Santa Cruz.6) Future.  The PB&R, the Schools, Libraries, the Planning Commission, the City Council and other departmental agencies can potentially post on-line their agendas, schedules, notices, which are currently delivered by mail, newspaper, etc..  These could be potentially distributed by means of a mailing list, Web page, ftp archive and/or other means.*****************I am curious what others who are reading this think, and I wonder if this coming Monday's Council meeting is a good time to start a discussion of what we want to happen in the future of an On-line Pacifica? '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/21/95 04:02:03 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Marking the bypass route on Shamrock Ranch>Bruce: I just talked to Dana Denman, owner of Shamrock Ranch. She said mark>that fill area on the ranch is fine with her. She was looking at a map >yesterday and concluded that Shamrock is 1/3 of the bypass proposal! She >expects your call...LeslieI spoke with Dana and received her approval.  I bought 7000 feet of hot pink ribbon, and intend to install it "Cristo-like" over the weekend.  In honor, I guess, of Earth Day.  May the poison oak gods be with me.  '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/21/95 04:02:08 PMFrom: LSTEERE.US.ORACLE.COM (LSTEERE_AT_us.oracle.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Marking the bypass route on Shamrock RanchGreat! Do you have any of that anti-poison oak creame? There is such a thing, you know. Also, if you wash immediately after exposure with COOL or COLD water (so as to keep pores closed) and Fels Naptha soap or something like that (I've even used Ajax), it seems to really help prevent getting it. Do you have anyone set up to take photos? Any contact with press?Date: 04/21/95 04:39:13 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Debate ongoing re:Devil's Slide in ba.general newsgroupFor those who care, check out the newsgroup ba.general where there has recently started a "debate" regarding the merits of the tunnel versus the bypass alternative to the permanent repair of Devil's Slide. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/21/95 04:39:18 PMFrom: LSTEERE.US.ORACLE.COM (LSTEERE_AT_us.oracle.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Debate ongoing re:Devil's Slide in ba.general newsgroup--Boundary-11516440-0-0how do you get to that newsgroup?-Date: 04/24/95 06:39:29 AMFrom: Walter Dmytrenko (dwalt_AT_mercury.sfsu.edu)Via: Netcom SFSubject: people literacy              (((((               (((((((((( ((          (((((((((((((()))         ((((((((((((((((((         ==================         | ( O ) / ( O ) ||           \======/  ======/                {    L_    }}                    \  :-O-: }}     bruce, it's great that you'll             \\|   |//      be down at city hall asking that               \\|//        our local government get the telecommunications upgrade, the pacifica.gov domain etc.however, i do get concerned when the talk is of getting people to become "computer literate".  it's the type of talk that makes us types either sound snooty or snotty, depending on where you want the emphasis, and puts others on the defensive and impedes overall communication. my asides aside, however. another aspect of communication would be to have a public forum/comment section that is tied into the phone lines, something akin to a call in show using the format that allows citizens to address questions, etc to the elected officials while council is in session. since more people have phones than computers, since many people cannot afford computers or the time to develop their computer literacy, a simple phone communication that could be part of the channel 8 telecast would be perhaps of significant impact for interaction. of course, the technology is old, but the application in this case would be radical. and there would have to be standard protocols developed that emulate the current democratic representation that is allowed by in-person contributions.thanks for all your efforts and your work . . . walter Date: 04/24/95 08:43:15 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: people literacyWalter Dmytrenko wrote>         | ( O ) / ( O ) ||  > i do get concerned when the talk is of getting people to become >"computer literate".  I'll edit it out, though I'm stretching my mind to find a better phrase. >another aspect of communication would be to have a public forum/comment >section that is tied into the phone lines, something akin to a call in show>using the format that allows citizens to address questions, etc to the >elected officials while council is in sessionAt first I thought you were suggesting a "talk show" format program for Channel 8 which could work.  [I suppose even live during the council session]  In either case, someone (or a group of people) would need to "do it".  [You or someone else.]>than computers, since many people cannot afford computers or the time to >develop their computer literacy,                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Even you use the phrase .>be part of the channel 8 telecast would be perhaps of significant impact fo>interaction. of course, the technology is old, but the application in this >would be radical. I agree it could be very significant, though the difference is that a "call in" show would take "management" while an "Online Pacifica" could be "self managing".>thanks for all your efforts and your work . . . walter Actually, what I am really after is some sort of consensus.  I don't want to bull this through, but rather that the direction I push towards is in agreement with some other people, too.  It would help if I wasn't a "lone voice" at tonight's meeting. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/24/95 08:43:21 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: How I spent my weekend:With eight hours of bush whacking, and a mile of hot pink ribbon, marking the proposed bypass road alignment on the hill above Shamrock ranch.  Though I regret a little that most people, unless they walk up on the hill, won't be able to see these markers without binoculars.  The thin pink lines are visible from across the valley to those blessed with clear eyesight.I had a lot of time to think, up on the hillside, about...1) The large scale of the bypass road.  Standing there, first hand, I could see that due to the design of the "high speed" large radius curves, that the amount of cut and fill area was maximized.  If the road were to curve a little more, the cut and fill areas could be easily reduced by half.2) Each of the "valleys" to be filled contain wetlands, some just a trickle, and some with ponds.  I wonder how many uncounted frogs and snakes (with their habitat) will be lost.  Why is there a need to fill the two ponds at the head of the central and westerly valley on Shamrock Ranch?3) The extreme beauty of this hillside, the solitude of which would be lost with a road passing through the middle.  Somehow I doubt that a soundwall will save the sounds of the bird calls.  And, is the value of this solitude being factored into the economics of choosing between the bypass and the tunnel?4) The number of people who use it for hiking and biking.  The routing of the road will break the trail into short pieces, and where each segment will butt into the bypass road, the temptation will be for our kids to run across between traffic.5) Why does the bypass alignment calls for the removal of the grove of trees near the nursing home?  Isn't the existing road alignment good enough for this stretch at least?6) Why should a two lane tunnel alternative not at least be considered?  Remember, that the results of our decision will out live us all.  A few months of our short term inconvience today will not mean much to our grandchildren (and theirs) when they ask why we allowed this green space to be ruined. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/Date: 04/24/95 02:04:13 PMFrom: LSTEERE.US.ORACLE.COM (LSTEERE_AT_us.oracle.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: How I spent my weekend:--Boundary-11537064-0-0Bruce: I was there before 7 a.m yesterday and rode my horse around looking for you. Had my camera. Then I came back late afternoon and saw the ribbon. We WILL need to bring people into Shamrock to see it, but the owner is willing to plan some public events there.Great job, but the way. That must have been very hard work, and I am sorry I and my camera missed you. I hope you plan to bring your thoughts to the council meeting tonight. LeslieDate: 04/25/95 07:15:04 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: City Council meeting, bypass, & pacifica online** Re: Devil's Slide vote **Monday night the City Council voted 4-0 to request Caltrans to provide all documents pertaining to a tunnel alternative to a permanent repair of the Devil's Slide.  Dorothy Edminster sponsored the proposal, and with a touch of flair, added that they asks Caltrans to identify who was responsible for the decision to not further investigate the tunnel over the bypass road alternative.  Mitch Reed added a point of drama, producing some recently disclosed Caltrans documents, and called for a crimial investigation.  Of the four voting council members (Vi Gottelli abstained, though she expressed her support), it was Barbara Carr who gave the most luke warm support.  She qualified her position as that it may change if Tom Lantos were to state that the funding of the permanent repair could not be used for a tunnel.  Ellen Castelli asked that the letter to Tom Lantos emphasize the potential that a tunnel alternative may result in cost savings during construction.** Re: On-Line Pacifica **In an unrelated issue, I addressed the Council asking their view of the future of an On-line Pacifica.  My question was received politely, but I could tell from looking in their eyes, most notably Barbara Carr's, that they did not have an idea of what an on-line future for Pacifica could be.  Mayor Carr defered to Charlie English, and asked him to call me.  Overall, they were receptive to the idea.  During the break, Maxine Gonzalves spoke with me and asked for my help in getting her established on-line, and I promised her my help.  Councilwoman Gonzalves said that she like the idea of making City Council agendas available in advance of the meetings on-line.  At this same meeting, the Chamber of Commerce announced with a flourish their plans to establish a Web page within a month. '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        )    `   '    ' ,   ` . . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *    .    *     bruce hallman. _/_/ ' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/   _/_/_/  ,    '  http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/As announced at the City Council meeting on 4/24/94, the Pacifica Chamber of commerce is "sponsoring" a new series of Pacifica World Wide Web pages.  Still in the planning stages, it seems that pretty much anything related to the interests of Pacifica would be welcome, especially those things which might be seen as promotional to the interests of local people and/or tourists.Jeffrey Laurance  is the "sysop" more or less, and invites anybody and everybody who might be interested in getting a chance to sponsor a part of this project depending on whatever their special interests may be.  The Chamber of Commerce is donating the Web space, so this is a great opportunity to publish "on-line" for free.Especially welcome are people who might want to publish info from local clubs, groups, businesses, civic organizations, etc..  No Web publishing skills are needed to participate.The meeting is at 8PM, tonight 5/2/95, in the Chamber of Commerce office at Suite 2 on 450 Dondee Ave, (near Nick's) at Rockaway Beach, Pacifica.'     *   . .      '      )     +         `  .     '      `   'Bruce Hallman. +    .       ,    * ' .      '     .URL: http://www.netgate.net/~deadfish/_/_/ ' _/_/ _/  _/_/  Subscribe to the pacifica-l EMail: listserv_AT_netcom.comDate: 05/02/95 09:57:10 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Pacifica Web pages, planning meeting tonight 5/2/95Bruce,Thanks for the notice, but I won't be able to get to make the meeting.  Ifyou're there, would you please make known the option of getting the web pageon CityLink (http://www.NeoSoft.com:80/citylink/overview.html)?-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 05/05/95 09:57:51 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Pedro point health club.Does anybody reading this know of anybody who has signed up to the new health club at Pedro Point?  What is going on there, for instance, when will they open?  I know they are accepting memberships, but I wonder if they will ever open, or if they do, what kind of service (hours, equipment, etc.) they will provide and for how long.'     *   . .      '      )     +         `  .     '     ` bruce_AT_hallman.org. +     .         ,    * ' .      '     .     http://www.hallman.org/~bruce/_/_/ ' _/_/ _/  _/_/  Subscribe to the pacifica-l EMail: listserv_AT_netcom.comDate: 05/08/95 06:36:22 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Pedro point health club.I've signed up; they're supposed to open by the 15th of this month.  Fromwhat I was told, they'll have the usual machines (stairmaster, stationarybike), weights (free and mechanical) and aerobics classes.  They will openearly in the am, can't remember the exact time, but no later than 6.I signed up using the EFT method.  That way I'm on the hook for only thefirst and last month.  They're prorating the first month so it cost me$37.50 to sign up.Time will tell...>Does anybody reading this know of anybody who has signed up to the new >health club at Pedro Point?  What is going on there, for instance, when will >they open?  I know they are accepting memberships, but I wonder if they will >ever open, or if they do, what kind of service (hours, equipment, etc.) they >will provide and for how long.>>'     *   . .      '      )     +         `  .     '     ` bruce_AT_hallman.org>. +     .         ,    * ' .      '     .     http://www.hallman.org/~bruce/>_/_/ ' _/_/ _/  _/_/  Subscribe to the pacifica-l EMail: listserv_AT_netcom.com>>-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 05/08/95 08:25:21 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: CITIZENS FOR THE TUNNEL meeting, May 8th>>CITIZENS FOR THE TUNNEL will be meeting at Montara Gardens on Monday May>8th at 7:30 pm. Please attend and bring an interested friend. Your support>is vital.>I know that Montara is "far away" for those interested in the tunnel alternative, this meeting may be of interest.'     *   . .      '      )     +         `  .     '     ` bruce_AT_hallman.org. +     .         ,    * ' .      '     .     http://www.hallman.org/~bruce/_/_/ ' _/_/ _/  _/_/  Subscribe to the pacifica-l EMail: listserv_AT_netcom.comDate: 05/08/95 10:01:49 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: Re: Pedro point health club (Pacifica Athletic Center)Dave Yuhas wrote:>I signed up using the EFT method.  That way I'm on the hook for only the>first and last month.  They're prorating the first month so it cost me>$37.50 to sign up.>>Time will tell...FWIW, I went in on Saturday and signed up too.  Their other plans are $85/quarter or $295 per year.  If you sign up quarterly, you can convert to the yearly rate within 60 days.  Everybody who signs up prior to May 15th are considered to be "charter members" and are promised no rate increases in their lifetime.My impression of the gym was very positive.  The high ceilings and large floor area of a grocery store type of building are well suited for use as a gym.  The had just received the shipment of equipment, and they appeared to have ordered plenty.  I spoke with the owner, Derrick, who seemed very familiar with the ins and outs of running a health club.  He said he expected that 30% of his business would come from south of the Devil's Slide.  The aerobics room was large and had a nice bouncy wood floor.  They also offered "free" daycare.  Not to mention the plentyful parking, which has the gyms in Daly City beat hands down.   All in all, it is not only the closest gym to Pacifica, but in my opinion, it will be the nicest too.  '     *   . .      '      )     +         `  .     '     ` bruce_AT_hallman.org. +     .         ,    * ' .      '     .     http://www.hallman.org/~bruce/_/_/ ' _/_/ _/  _/_/  Subscribe to the pacifica-l EMail: listserv_AT_netcom.comDate: 05/08/95 10:02:06 AMFrom: Walter Dmytrenko (dwalt_AT_mercury.sfsu.edu)Via: Netcom SFSubject: pedro pt health club              (((((               (((((((((( ((          (((((((((((((()))         ((((((((((((((((((         ==================         | ( O ) / ( O ) ||           \======/  ======/                {    L_    }}                    \  :-O-: }}    amazing! just amazing, with one of             \\|   |//     the best beaches, best waters on the               \\|//       california coast, people are stillwilling to fork over $x to stay fit. for the cost of a year'ssubscription to a health club, you could get your own wet suitand board and be massaged/challenged/invigorated/pushed/pulledinto corpore sano by our own town's namesake, the pacific ocean.but alas, for the land lubbers/lovers and erstwhile golf nuts:a friend, who has subscribed at many gyms over the hill, is veryimpressed by the pedro pt health club. compared to the recentlyopened bay hill gym, the pedro pt gym has professional equipmentthat fits all sizes and physiques, good space and indoorenvironment, plus the friendly accommodating atmosphere that onlypacifica merchants can offer. prices? you get what you pay for!but, i'ld rather play with the sharks (& that's not hockey), bestto all . . . wd (and that's not william drake)Date: 05/08/95 12:50:55 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Via: Netcom SFSubject: pedro pt health club & we need a surf-cam Web page.dwalt wrote:>     | ( O ) / ( O ) ||     for the cost of a year's>subscription to a health club, you could get your own wet suit>and board...but, i'ld rather play with the sharksLast time I looked, surfing didn't appear to be a highly aerobic activity... unless you want to count hypothermic shivering.  Though I suppose that burning those body fat btu's for body heat survival beats out a thighmaster workout every day of the week .BTW, I am still looking for someone to write a piece about Surfing Pacifica for the Pacifica Web Pages.  [My real dream is to have a surf-cam Web page.]'     *   . .      '      )     +         `  .     '     ` bruce_AT_hallman.org. +     .         ,    * ' .      '     .     http://www.hallman.org/~bruce/_/_/ ' _/_/ _/  _/_/  Subscribe to the pacifica-l EMail: listserv_AT_netcom.comDate: 05/08/95 02:26:27 PMFrom: Walter Dmytrenko (dwalt_AT_mercury.sfsu.edu)Via: Netcom SFSubject: surfs up              (((((               (((((((((( ((          (((((((((((((()))         ((((((((((((((((((         ==================         | ( O ) / ( O ) ||           \======/  ======/                {    L_    }}       eh, bruce, yea a surf patch              \  :-O-: }}   on the pacifica web would be super             \\|   |//    appropriate. a couple of years back               \\|//      i talked the tribune sports editor torun a surf column and they were lucky enough to find jay jannsonof the pedro point surf club to do the column on a contributionbasis. as for moi meme, je suis ete un garcon de canada and ihung my skates up and got a used wetsuit at a garage sale and gotboards & stuff too. i have much respect for the ocean and amreluctant to contribute on the piece, except as a neophyte.however, i will talk to my seniors and see what we can dredge up.it still amazes me that we have so much wonderful water about andso little public appreciation of it, but that leaves a lot ofroom for us beginners to practice the fine art of surfing.incidentally, my mention that they named the ocean after ourlittle fair town, or was it the other way around?, the corollaryfolk fiction is that way back when there was no pacifica, butjust five small hamlets, and decisions were made to combine toone fair town, decisions also had to be made as to what to call"it". a local prominent figure of the period who coincidentallywas the asst manager of the local cinema, made the suggestionthat the town might be called "seavue". alas, wise souls chose toname it after you know who . . . surf's up & i is away . . . boogie-ing in bod and spirit . . .wd