Date: 05/09/95 06:45:38 AMFrom: Walter Dmytrenko (dwalt_AT_mercury.sfsu.edu)Subject: surf & turf              (((((               (((((((((( ((          (((((((((((((()))         ((((((((((((((((((         ==================         | ( O ) / ( O ) ||           \======/  ======/                {    L_    }}                    \  :-O-: }}   gosh darn bruce, for $3000 we could             \\|   |//    esaily outfit 10 underprivileged               \\|//      would be surfers. however, i do thinkthat some surf shops might be interested, and where there'sdollars to be made, the chamber of commerce can't be too farbehind. i've started putting out some feelers to the other people inrubber suits, but it'll take a week or so to get responses. ithink there's a big surf meet somewhere on the coast.aside from raising the big bucks and a little doe, there is alsothe interests of foundations like the surfrider foundation whichhas over the last number of years been promoting the "blue watercampaign" aimed at checking the quality of our ocean water.i think it has potential.don montgomery is local photographer of worth, who has built up acollection of photos (and i personally think that photos ofsurfers are far too distant) but the biography of surfer and thehistory of surf suits could make interesting reading and looking.all of this and other good stuff can be eventually gleaned fromthe pedro point surf club.gosh & oobles, they'ld read & look at this stuff allnight inperth, australia.i'll work on what i can work, as i love the water and think thatthere's too few people in it. (not to mention the possibility ofa ferry from 1/2 moon bay past devil's slide).we'll talk and wave as we pass one another on the informationsuperhiway or maybe when we surf the cyberspace. and, of course,there is my northern california surf joke.best . . . wDate: 05/09/95 10:53:11 AMFrom: Walter Dmytrenko (dwalt_AT_mercury.sfsu.edu)Subject: cc's frost line              (((((               (((((((((( ((          (((((((((((((()))         ((((((((((((((((((         ==================         | ( O ) / ( O ) ||           \======/  ======/                {    L_    }}        bruce, total agreement on            \  :-O-: }}      revised costs, & digi camera's             \\|   |//       have been seen for as low as $99.               \\|//      as to the bias, well the cold war isover, but some people are still interested in everyone having anuclear powered vacuum cleaner. we'll just have to find out wherethey squirreled the peace dividend and find our waves of choice.& html is pretty easy, and advances in writing pgms will make iteven easier, altho hookup to each household poses time problems.will talk/write later . . . wDate: 05/09/95 02:03:57 PMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Subject: Surf cam idea.Subject: walter, walter everywhere, but where's the sinkbruce,wow! periscopes, helmet, eye-seeing boards. and, i'm still waiting for a call back from one of my more experienced colleagues regarding some copy. seems like i'm in that newbie's position of waiting for the right wave, while all the gods are tubing. such is the status of the myopic.bandwidth, delivery, circulation - i find to be the most vexing problems, and i am aware of the movements in the technology. in my own case i have to rely on sfsu onsite facilities for netscape/mosaic, while at home i use the chisel to hack out the info. even with the state's facilties, i do notice the lag time in delivery, so those problems still have to be worked out for the fast food generation.i'll put out all the info you passed over to me, and am in agreement with the potential for commercial sponsorship, but as those chamber of commerce types are well aware, the surfer types have more respect for the water than the almighty dollar.will talk/type later . . . best . . . walterDate: 05/18/95 06:58:29 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Subject: GovAccess.118: TAP's Update on ISDNFrom owner-pacifica-l Wed May 17 21:40:02 1995Return-Path: Received: by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom)	id VAA15290; Wed, 17 May 1995 21:23:21 -0700Received: from mail.crl.com by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom)	id VAA15283; Wed, 17 May 1995 21:23:19 -0700Received: from crl12.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA25146  (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Wed, 17 May 1995 21:22:14 -0700Message-Id: <199505180422.AA25146_AT_mail.crl.com>X-Sender: dave_AT_mail.crl.comX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3Mime-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 21:17:40 -0700To: pacifica-l_AT_netcom.comDate: 05/18/95 06:58:37 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Subject: Thank You!Michael and Michele,Thank you VERY much for a wonderful dinner!  From this day forward, I willassociate good food with the intoxicating aroma of mothballs .Be that as it may, you can subscribe to the Pacifica mailing list by sendinga message to pacifica-l_AT_netcom.com, no subject, "subscribe pacifica-lslaughtr_AT_crl.com" (no quotes) in the body.  If that doesn't work, the personwho maintains the list is deadfish_AT_netcom.com.  Real name is Bruce Hallman.Dave Yuhas                         Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com                        415 495 1916 / 415 777 9798 (fax)Date: 05/19/95 12:03:04 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Subject: PACruce,Have you been to the PAC yet?  If you have, have you noticed they don't havea clue about who their members are? At least the people at the counter don'thave a clue...-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 05/26/95 09:45:03 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Subject: Pacifica Web page, now includes Devil's Slide bypass image.Thanks to David Macy, my Pacifica Web page now includes an image of the proposed alignment of the Devil's Slide bypass road as it would appear from the Linda Mar Valley should it be built.  If you are curious where the bypass road would be routed, point your Web Browser to:http://www.hallman.ort/~bruce/pacifica.html'     *   . .      '      )     +         `  .     '     ` bruce_AT_hallman.org. +     .         ,    * ' .      '     .     http://www.hallman.org/~bruce/_/_/ ' _/_/ _/  _/_/  Subscribe to the pacifica-l EMail: listserv_AT_netcom.comDate: 05/26/95 02:59:07 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Subject: Re: Pacifica Web page, now includes Devil's Slide bypass image.http://www.hallman.org/~bruce/I keep getting a DNS error when trying to connect.  Is the address correct?-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 05/30/95 06:46:12 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Subject: Re: Pacifica Web page, now includes Devil's Slide bypass image.Bruce,Thanks for clearing that up.  I should have been able to figure that one out...How did you get your own domain - hallman.org?I was at the PTA-1 meeting last night; I was the one who first asked aboutthe federal funding.  I don't think PTA-1 has a clue about how to get thatmoney pried loose.  "Political will" won't do it.  One of our congressionalrepresentatives has to get this done, and I don't see that happening.  Ifthe SMCO supes won't even vote to ask (beg) CalTrans for information, whywould Lantos, or whomever, take the job on?  Time is running out.  If the tunnel is such a good idea, and I think it is,why wasn't it such a good idea a year ago, or two years ago?  I have thefeeling that for some people, the tunnel is merely another strategy to delaya dependable road to the south.  Of course it's entirely possible I wasn'tpaying attention two years ago, and there were people talking about atunnel.  I don't remember it that way and I don't remember seeing bumperstickers.My .02 cents worth.Dave Yuhas                         Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com                        415 495 1916 / 415 777 9798 (fax)Date: 05/30/95 06:46:56 AMFrom: Ed Vandehey (bigcritr_AT_ix.netcom.com)Subject: City of Pacifica web page now upThe City of Pacifica now has a small web page available for viewing.  The Association of Bay Area Governments (ABAG) has made a website available for all bay area cities.  Ed Vandehey, Programmer/Analyst for the City of Pacifica has developed a page and the address is:http://www.abag.gov/abag/local_gov/city/1web/pacifica.html                                        ^                                        ^--- this is a "one"Acquiring a permenant home with ample storage space for growth for the City's web pages is still being discussed but felt you all should know. Let us know what you think.Date: 05/30/95 06:47:33 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Subject: Re: City of Pacifica web page now up>The City of Pacifica now has a small web page available for viewing.  >The Association of Bay Area Governments (ABAG) has made a website >available for all bay area cities.  Ed Vandehey, Programmer/Analyst for >the City of Pacifica has developed a page and the address is:>>http://www.abag.gov/abag/local_gov/city/1web/pacifica.html>                                        ^>                                        ^--- this is a "one">The correct URL is:     http://www.abag.ca.gov/abag/local_gov/city/1web/pacifica.html-------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 05/30/95 06:48:03 AMFrom: Richard J. Corelli, M.D. (corelli_AT_leland.stanford.edu)Subject: Home PageAnnouncing my new home page that you might find of interest:"http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~corelli/"Richard J. Corelli, M.D.                Diplomate, American Board of Psychiatry & Neurology                                 in Psychiatry                    Clinical Associate Professor of Psychiatry                        Stanford University Medical Center                Candidate, C.G. Jung Institute of San Francisco                VOICEMAIL: 415.326.1915                FAX: 415.726.2594                E-MAIL: corelli_AT_leland.stanford.edu                URL: http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~corelli/Date: 05/30/95 12:29:58 PMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Subject: Re: Pacifica Web page, now includes Devil's Slide bypass image.>That would be Tom Lantos, who I recently wrote about this and he wrote back, >being careful to be noncommittal, _either way_.  Somehow, I find it hard to >believe that if the tunnel was shown to be cheaper, that any in Washington >would have the political will to deny funding to the cheaper of the two >alterantives.>From what was said at the meeting last week, and from what I've read, thetunnel is cheaper than the bypass.  So what's keeping the Honorable TomLantos from getting the funds moved to the tunnel project?>>>If>>the SMCO supes won't even vote to ask (beg) CalTrans for information, why>>would Lantos, or whomever, take the job on?  >>Lantos wrote in his letter that he has (and will) provide the funding, but >the details of the repair are to be worked out locally.  >>>Time is running out.  >>It appears so, but I wouldn't hold your breath during the permitting phase.  >The bypass route calls for the total filling of a pond on the Shamrock >Ranch, plus the fills of several creeks (wetlands).  Somehow I doubt that >this will be easy to get permitted.  If for instance, an endanged species of >garter snake was found in the bypass route, what would happen?  Note that >the bypass plan has not entered into the jurisdiction of the EPA yet.I hope you're right, but the state has crippled the protection of endangeredspecies.  I wouldn't trust the state to protect the wetlands; at best, itrepresents a delay.>Caltrans appears to have considered a tunnel as far back as 1974, but >quashed the idea because of the economics of making it 4 lanes wide.  I have >only read part of the information recently released by Caltrans to Mitch >Reed, but one of the shocking things is that the reason that Caltrans gave Would someone please tell Mitch that the taping of telephone conversationswithout the consent of both parties is a violation of law (and I'm notreferring to the answering machine tapes)?  Or does Mitch and PTA-1 want toget hauled into court by CalTrans?  I would have gladly foregone Mitch's dogand pony show to hear a clear strategy on how the funds dedicated to thebypass will be moved to the tunnel alternative.  -------------------------------------------------------------Dave Yuhas          |      Christine Krenzel, CPAdave_AT_crl.com        |      415-495-1916 / 415-777-9798 (fax)-------------------------------------------------------------Date: 06/06/95 07:39:26 AMFrom: Bruce Hallman (deadfish)Subject: Asphalt equipment spotted at Pedro Point!Last night I spotted an asphalt spreading machine, and an asphalt paving roller parked at Pedro Point.  That tells me that Caltrans either just has completed, or is about to complete the paving of the Devil's Slide repair.  On Sunday I saw what looked like a gravel truck driving to the slide area, which is the construction operation which would have preceeded the asphalt work.  After the asphalt paving, they would need to paint the traffic stripes and rebuild the guard rails.  With good weather, the striping can occur on the next day, which means they could be completed in a day or two.  If my speculation is correct, Highway 1 could be open by this weekend!  [fingers crossed]'     *   . .      '      )     +         `  .     '     ` bruce_AT_hallman.org. +     .         ,    * ' .      '     .     http://www.hallman.org/~bruce/_/_/ ' _/_/ _/  _/_/  Subscribe to the pacifica-l EMail: listserv_AT_netcom.comDate: 06/06/95 11:16:28 AMFrom: LSTEERE.US.ORACLE.COM (LSTEERE_AT_us.oracle.com)Subject: Re: Asphalt equipment spotted at Pedro Point!--Boundary-12521899-0-0Any ideas for stealing some of the media attention the road opening will attract are gladly accepted.--Boundary-12521899-0-0Date: 06/08/95 07:58:13 AMFrom: aaa (deadfish)Subject: Bypass/tunnel forumStatus: RI noticed in the Tribune that if you want to ask any questions at the upcoming tunnel/bypass forum (June 27) that the questions need to be submitted in advance by mail to:Pacifica Chamber of Commerce450 Dondee WayPacifica, CA 94044The forum is intended to address technical (as opposed to political) issues surounding the the Devil's Slide bypass.'     *   . .      '      )     +         `  .     '     ` bruce_AT_hallman.org. +     .         ,    * ' .      '     .     http://www.hallman.org/~bruce/_/_/ ' _/_/ _/  _/_/  Subscribe to the pacifica-l EMail: listserv_AT_netcom.comDate: 06/08/95 11:18:25 AMFrom: Dave Yuhas (dyuhas_AT_aimnet.com)Subject: Re: Bypass/tunnel forumOn Thu, 8 Jun 1995, Bruce Hallman wrote:> I noticed in the Tribune that if you want to ask any questions at the > upcoming tunnel/bypass forum (June 27) that the questions need to be > submitted in advance by mail to:I noticed that the emphasis of the meeting is to be technical rather than"political." I don't understand that.  The critical issue facing tunnelproponents, of which I am one, is how to force CalTrans, an arrogant stateagency, to conduct an honest technical review of the tunnel project. Until CalTrans does that, the issue is entirely political. Dave YuhasPacifica, CAdave_AT_crl.comDate: 06/08/95 11:33:12 AMFrom: Michael Slaughter (slaughtr_AT_crl.com)Subject: Re: Bypass/tunnel forumOn Thu, 8 Jun 1995, Dave Yuhas wrote:> I noticed that the emphasis of the meeting is to be technical rather than> "political." I don't understand that.  The critical issue facing tunnel> proponents, of which I am one, is how to force CalTrans, an arrogant state> agency, to conduct an honest technical review of the tunnel project. > Until CalTrans does that, the issue is entirely political. > > Dave Yuhas> Pacifica, CA> dave_AT_crl.comFURTHERMORE, even if a putatively "objective" study can be accomplished bythe State Highway Dept (I doubt that it's possible), the dissemination of theinformation becomes an issue.Or to put it another way, the *suppression* of the information becomes an issue. Also the interpretation of data by Highway Dept spin doctors and the reporting by whatever media see fit to cover any of this.Dave is entirely correct: This is a *political* issue. Or as anarchist economist Dr. Doug Dowd posits, "There are no economic problems--there are only political ones."Seems to me one should approach the State Highway Dept (and I use this terminology deliberately) doing studies on Hwy None in the manner that one would with regard to, say, Philip Morris (800-929-1414) doing a study on causes of lung cancer.__________________________________________________________________________For a world without bosses, capitalism, militaries, governments, religion,corporations large and small, and fast food of any kind. Michael Slaughter__________________________________________________________________________ Date: 06/08/95 12:48:42 PMFrom: Michael Slaughter (slaughtr_AT_crl.com)Subject: Re: Bypass/tunnel forumWritten questions? Written questions provided in advance?Q. Why is that?A. What you will be told is that this procedure ensures that people stick to the topic, that the all the issues will be dealt with adequately, that pertinent technical data will be presented, that duplicate questions will be eliminated (thus saving time), and that the selection process ensures fairness.Q. Selection process?A. Of course. They pick which questions they will answer.Q. Doesn't this mean they are trying to control the flow of information.A. Bingo! That's why they can't allow verbal ambush. If they don't like the question, it isn't asked.Q. Can we do something about this problem?A. I (Slaughter) don't know. Does anyone (out there) have ideas?Date: 06/08/95 12:48:46 PMFrom: Michael Slaughter (slaughtr_AT_crl.com)Subject: Re: Bypass/tunnel forumOn Thu, 8 Jun 1995, Dave Yuhas wrote:> I noticed that the emphasis of the meeting is to be technical rather than> "political." I don't understand that.  The critical issue facing tunnel> proponents, of which I am one, is how to force CalTrans, an arrogant state> agency, to conduct an honest technical review of the tunnel project. > Until CalTrans does that, the issue is entirely political. > > Dave Yuhas> Pacifica, CA> dave_AT_crl.comFURTHERMORE, even if a putatively "objective" study can be accomplished bythe State Highway Dept (I doubt that it's possible), the dissemination of theinformation becomes an issue.Or to put it another way, the *suppression* of the information becomes an issue. Also the interpretation of data by Highway Dept spin doctors and the reporting by whatever media see fit to cover any of this.Dave is entirely correct: This is a *political* issue. Or as anarchist economist Dr. Doug Dowd posits, "There are no economic problems--there are only political ones."Seems to me one should approach the State Highway Dept (and I use this terminology deliberately) doing studies on Hwy None in the manner that one would with regard to, say, Philip Morris (800-929-1414) doing a study on causes of lung cancer.__________________________________________________________________________For a world without bosses, capitalism, militaries, governments, religion,corporations large and small, and fast food of any kind. Michael Slaughter__________________________________________________________________________ Date: 06/08/95 04:10:53 PMFrom: LSTEERE.US.ORACLE.COM (LSTEERE_AT_us.oracle.com)Subject: Re: Bypass/tunnel forum--Boundary-12582540-0-0I don't think that's quite representative of what will happen, amd I hope people don't think of this forum as a PR or useless political exercise. This is a forum supported by our VERY supportive city council, and a way of trying to get all of the information on both side of the table out in public view. The forum will be in the chambers, which means the public will be there. The point of the forum is NOT for two contentious sides of an issue to present their views as they see fit to present them. It is to gather experts and to allow the public to question them in full view about the various possible solutions to the Devil's Slide issue. It will also be televised. Of course, many of us hope what will happen is that when everything is out in the open and Caltrans is asked to respond to some of the independent experts' statements and views, Caltrans will fall on its face. This forum is the most positive step toward resolution of the issue that has happened so far on the coastside as far as I can see. The city council was elected to serve the needs of its community, and when enough of the community says their needs are not met by a freeway cutting through their mountain, we have some hopes of resolving the issue another way--like building a tunnel.  But that's not going to happen if people start to naysay the information-gathering process. Leslie Steere, PTA-1Date: 06/08/95 04:11:31 PMFrom: LSTEERE.US.ORACLE.COM (LSTEERE_AT_us.oracle.com)Subject: Re: Bypass/tunnel forum--Boundary-12582613-0-0The only agency authorized to do an *official* tunnel study and tunnel plan is Caltrans. The only way we can force Caltrans to do this is through political pressure. The only way to get the politicians to apply that pressure is to give them enough information that they are convinced there are or may be viable alternatives to the bypass. The only way to do that is to gather independent experts and Caltrans people in one room, in front of the public, to answer questions. Therefore the forum. Leslie--Boundary-12582613-0-0